Continuing on with the rebuttal! Remember my initial responses come from the perspective of conjecture, I was asked for my opinion about Jodi's mindset. Of course, not being Jodi, I can only base my responses on a reasonable interpretation based on logic, common sense and the facts as we know them. Therefore my responses are subject to scrutiny and differing opinions.
6. Why does she fill the cans in Salt Lake City if their purpose was to hide her trip into Arizona? Was she also hiding her trip home to Yreka?
Justus you ask a fair question. There is a huge discrepancy that I wonder about. I wasn't suggesting Jodi was committing another crime, as a matter of fact, I hadn't even considered it. It's a pretty big discrepancy though. As someone on JAii mentioned, it could be that after 5 years Ryan forgot what time she left.
Alexey I may not have been clear in my reply, I was trying to convey that Jodi had killed a man the previous day or so, she knew at any time his body might be discovered, and she also may have felt that she would be questioned, or that the police were on the lookout for her. Her mind may have been racing, her imagination working overtime, and in the event she had to make a run for it, she wanted full gas cans so she wouldn't have to stop off at gas stations.
We also have to ask ourselves where she used the gas from the earlier gas can fill up. Had to have been in Arizona--there are no receipts from Arizona and this would explain why (the re-fill up in SLC).
Justus that's why I make the joke about Clint Eastwood, that she could use backroads if necessary and fill up off the grid so to speak. Not a perfect plan, but as Jodi as stated about the 9mm, "better to have it and not need it...."
Interesting word choice there Maria ;)
7. Why tell Ryan she’s on her way if she’s already planning a six hour trip to Mesa and then at least another 10 hour trip to Salt Lake City? What kind of alibi is that?
You're both right. It's a puzzling question, open to many scenarios. It could just be that she didn't anticipate staying with Travis as long as she did and gave an estimate as close to the time as possible. Ryan did know she was on the way, so she had to tell him something. It's interesting to me that if Ryan was the love interest, she spent far more time talking to Travis or trying to contact him, then she did actually talking to Ryan. It's also interesting that during her testimony she stated she got to Pasadena and immediately called Ryan to tell him she was turning her phone off to save the battery, but then immediately afterwards called Travis to tell him she decided to go to Mesa after all (please note if Travis had 'guilted' her into going to Mesa, it was in a previous call where she told him she couldn't, and it was after some time that she initiated the call to him. She could have just left it as is, because Travis obviously wasn't harassing her at that point.
8. Why go to the trouble of removing license plates to hide her presence at Travis’ house when it would have been infinitely easier to just drape something over it or park down the street?
True, but they didn't. The car would have been identified as strange in the driveway. It was only a few days later the police interviewed the roommates, they would have remembered a strange car. That tells me the car was parked aways from the house. If Jodi did indeed meet up with Travis at 4 in the morning, and then sleep until 1:00 pm., there would be no opportunity for the roommates to see her in Travis's room or throughout the house. And they didn't.
9. Why didn’t she kill him upon arrival at 4 am? She’s already going to be late getting to her so-called alibi by at least five hours.
10. Why didn’t she shoot him (or quietly slit his throat) during the night when he was sleeping? Why wait until he’s fully awake with the capacity to then kill her instead?
Alexey I'm not necessarily with the prosecution on this question. I can see an argument for either the gun shot first or the gun shot last.
As for the the possibility of slitting his throat at 4:00 in the morning while he slept: true the knife is quiet, but that's not what she has to worry about. The knife doesn't make a sound, but a man who is sleeping and awakens to someone slicing his throat is not just going to lay there and allow it. So much could go wrong with slicing his throat, or trying to slice his throat. He could scream, he could fight back, he could do a whole lot that would alert his room mates. As it was, attacking him in the later afternoon worked out quite well for her--she wasn't detected.
As for the 13 hour "nap"---that didn't raise suspicion at all with Ryan. He knew she had been on the road for several days, so sleeping half the day away wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility. In addition, she claimed she got lost, so that could take another couple of hours to realize it. Again, this was a perfect plan for Jodi -- she had a perfectly reasonable reason for being late, and the plan worked, Ryan believed her. For pretty much any other person in this case, if they had used the same excuse as Jodi, under similar circumstances, the police would had noted the lateness, but without other evidence to support the person actually traveling to Mesa and killing Travis, they would likely just chalk it up to someone taking a nap and getting lost. It was Jodi other actions that draw suspicion and give the appearance of premeditation.
11. Why have sex with him and leave her presence all over the crime scene?
12. Why have him take time-stamped photos of her and then not think to take the camera with her?
The fact is, Jodi did leave the camera, she went through the trouble of deleting the photos of her and Travis, and yet had the wherewithal to save Napoleon's pictures. No matter what she knew, or what you thought she knew about cameras, the fact remains she did leave it behind. She did a pretty good job of cleaning up the scene. For all that was going on, a partial handprint, a DNA profile and several strands of hair were all the evidence that Jodi left behind to identify her. She was very careful and methodical about removing evidence. If we are to believe Jodi, she was so methodical about cleaning up the scene that she took the two things that would have lent credibility to her story--the two lengths of rope she claimed were in the area (which would have lent credence to why the knife was in the room) and the gun (which would have proved to be Travis's and not her grandpa's).
Who knows what happened with the camera. I will say most people assume if a camera is put in a washing machine that it's pretty much toast. Jodi admitted that she knew that it was expensive and time consuming to retrieve deleted pictures, and may have felt that running the camera and card through the washing machine would destroy both. But I don't think she did that intentionally. I think when she was running around gathering up bloody towels and the like that it got lost in the shuffle and once she realized that it got put in the washer, she figured it was a good thing---the water would destroy the camera and card, so she didn't worry about it.
I saw some responses on JAii regarding the timestamps. Jodi would have noticed the time stamps early in her photo shoot. As a person interested in photography, she would have turned off that preference after the first few photos--when she realized it was on. She simply didn't notice it. I have a Nikon and a Canon, I'm no pro, but on a couple of occasions I've taken bunch of photos and the time stamp didn't register with me, until I downloaded them and then had to go back and then realized it was set to time stamp.
13. Why would she first attack a man who has martial art skills and at least 60 pounds on her using a knife if she supposedly came with a gun?
Thank you for conceding the point about the MMA stuff Justus. I don't deny that Travis was bigger and stronger than Jodi, but obviously Jodi took him down and she did it in 2 minutes. We talk about how she did and the absurdity of her doing it, but the fact is, she did it. In my opinion Jodi intended this to be a stealth attack---Travis wouldn't know what hit him. It seems it worked. Let's look at the gunshot first theory--on the stand she said something to the effect 'well, I would think if someone had a gun pointed at you, that it would stop you in your tracks. I know if it was me, it would stop me". So she admits that she thought a gun would be sufficient to control a subject.
Pandora I never said Jodi was a specialist, that's twisting my words. I said as far as having real skills, Jodi had the benefit of training. The reason she may not have beat the living crap out of him when he was "pounding on her verbally and physically", is because maybe he never was physical with her. Even if she did, her skills might not have been sufficient to overpower a guy of Travis's size, but combined with a gun and a knife, she was a force to be reckoned with.
If Travis was such a "hulk" (as stated on another comment) and had all that MMA practice, and the 16 1/2 biceps (don't know where you got this factoid), and was skilled at high kicks and wrestling moves, then why is he laying dead in a box in the ground? A guy with all that going on would have easily taken down a girl like Jodi. Jodi walked away with no injuries--other than a bump on the head. Nothing. Nothing whatsoever. If there's one question you guys will indulge me, then that is the question--why did Jodi walk away unscathed in an attack where she claims she was body-slammed twice, hit her head on the ground at least once, had the wind knocked out of her and Travis 'chasing her'. In addition to the 'attack' that supporters claim resulted in Jodi being in a death grip in Travis's arms, which is how he received over 80 % of his injuries to his back. Doesn't it make more sense that he was trying to get away from her while she chased him down the hall, raining stabs on him as they went?
Maria: "I am Jodi's size, I could NEVER overpower a man Travis's size."
But could you do it if you had a gun and a knife? Jodi obviously did, there's no doubt about it. If Jodi could, then you could as well. Guns and knives are the great equalizers in any fight. Again, don't you think a good question is 'why didn't Travis defend himself with all his 'skills' and strength? I say the element of surprise, the gun and the knife are the answers.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to dodge the question. You're right, most people would use the most powerful weapon. I'm not entirely convinced either way about gun shot first/gun shot last. I can see powerful arguments for both side. The autopsy and the fact the bullet had to have traveled through some part of his brain is one of the stumbling blocks, coupled with the trajectory being way off for how Jodi said the injury was sustained. Even if the trajectory matched up, then it makes the case worse for Jodi, in my opinion if the gun shot was first, he would have been incapacitated to some degree and she would have had the opportunity to escape, but she chose not to. He stood at the sink for at least a couple of seconds with his hands on the vanity (not attacking Jodi), she could have escaped then. She didn't.
14. Why after supposedly stabbing him in the shower does she let him go stand at the sink?If Travis had enough in him to go from the shower to the sink, stand there turning the faucet on and off while Jodi is supposedly stabbing him in the back, why didn’t he just turn around and smash her a good one?
You're right Maria, the vena cava wasn't nicked it was penetrated. I was going off Horn's testimony that it was an injury that wouldn't have been immediately fatal because though it penetrated, it didn't penetrate to the point of severing or completely destroying it. Horn believed he could still be alive for a couple of minutes after this injury.
The last injury was either the slashed throat or the gunshot (if we go with Horn's testimony that there was no blood in the wound track). How would it work if the stab to the heart was second (or third) from the last? In your scenario Travis has a gunshot wound to the head, he tries to defend himself with his hands, where he sustains 5 separate injuries, which mean Jodi's blow were at that time concentrated in the front of his body. We have to assume that despite the 5 blows he fended off, a few got through and resulted in the wounds on his chest and stomach. Let's say that the heart stab wasn't delivered at that time, and instead Travis had his back to her, like one would expect from someone trying to escape. He had the majority of stabs to the posterior of his body, so now we have him moving down the hall with Jodi continuing the stabbing.
At this point, right before the stab to the heart and the slashed throat, Travis has a bullet pass through his head and into his cheek (that didn't kill him outright), and over two dozen knife wounds--why does she then deliver what would be a fatal heart stab? It is beyond logic and common sense to think he is any kind of threat to her at this point.
But let's move on, if the heart stab was second to last, as you claim, then Travis had to have traveled the length of the hall and slid down the wall (as evidenced by the bloody 'rainbow'). He is weakened by the blood loss and the debilitating stab wounds and drops to the ground. We see a picture of Jodi standing over him while he lays supine. There is no way he is a threat to her, yet at this point you claim she drove a knife into his heart? How do you get self-defense from that?
One thing I've talked about on my blog, and many others have brought up, is at what time was Travis allowed to defend himself with deadly force? Even if everything Jodi said is correct--that she accidentally shot him, didn't he have the right to defend himself at that point? Didn't he have the right to "fucking kill you bitch"? He wouldn't know it was an accident, he would see it as a credible threat---she not only had the ways and means, but she actually pulled the trigger. She couldn't expect him not to want to defend himself.
And if we extrapolate that further--that Travis at that moment had an equal right to defend himself, and an equal right to kill Jodi, then it's not self-defense, it's mutual combat and that's a whole other animal.
15. How would anyone, except the one controlling the attack, have the option to stop and stand at the sink?
Maria I don't understand how he was controlling the attack. She has a gun and a knife. He is a naked man with a bullet in his head. He had the right to scream 'fucking kill you bitch" and to follow through on that statement. I don't see how he did much screaming with all the blood that would be pouring down his throat (which is the reason for him coughing it into the sink, right?). Not only that, he has a bullet lodged in the upper jaw, it seems to me it would be tough talking with a bullet in your maxillary jaw and a mouth full of blood.
So how is he controlling it? He has no weapons, and he's standing at the sink. Don't you think he's mortified that someone he loved and cared about just shot him in the head? Don't you think he wasn't thinking clearly? He was the one that had just been shot in the head, he certainly had no control over his thinking at that moment. Don't you think he was trying to figure out a way to defend himself? At the very least, at the moment he was standing at the sink, he already knew Jodi had a gun and that she would use it, because whether accidental of not, she just did.
Maria, please answer this for me: did Travis have any right at all to defend himself with deadly force? If not, why not? Why did Jodi have the greater right? Don't you think that if Jodi was panicked and scared and not thinking clearly, that Travis had not only the right to think the same way, but he also had a greater panic, a great fear and a greater reason for not thinking clearly, than Jodi did?
This subject will come up again in the next question you responded to. I believe you purposefully don't consider what Travis was going through in those two minutes and how if all things were equal his had a greater right to deadly force than Jodi did.
16. If he still had enough energy to travel down the hallway to the bedroom, why didn’t he just use that energy to stop all the stabbing she was supposedly doing?
I've combined these questions because they talk about the same thing. I'm going to copy and paste my original responses, because the one comment I captured the other day, is one that has really bothered me for the last couple of days. Here's my responses:
16. If he still had enough energy to travel down the hallway to the bedroom, why didn’t he just use that energy to stop all the stabbing she was supposedly doing?
Another oddly phrased question. What do you mean "all the stabbing she was supposedly doing?" She wasn't supposedly stabbing him, she was actually stabbing him. There is no doubt that she was stabbing him. No doubt whatsoever. Travis was terrified man--he was trying to escape as Jodi rained down stabs on him. He couldn't fight her off, the tendons of one thumb was severed at the base, which mean he had no ability to use thiat hand. He was losing blood and likely had very little control over his arms--they were likely flopping at his sides with no real muscle control due to the stabs in the back, chest, shoulders and necks. Damaging all those muscle like she did, meant he lost control of his arms. He just wanted to get out of there, he was running for his life, though one could hardly call it running.
17. Why did Travis have only four defensive wounds on his hands, only one on his dominant hand, and none on his lower arms if he was supposedly defending himself against a knife attack for more than a minute and perhaps up to two minutes?
She over powered him and rendered his hands and arms useless with all the other injuries she rained down upon him. I notice that many supporters seem to think that all those stab wounds had zero physical affect on Travis. That couldn't be farther from the truth. Slicing through tendons and muscles in the upper body has a profound effect on the hands and arms. Many of the muscle that support the biceps, for example are in the chest. If you sustain a chest wound over that muscle, it will weaken the bicep. With the bicep weakened or disabled, muscles in the forearm won't work. Look again at those autopsy wounds and you'll plainly see how disabling those injuries were. He likely couldn't raise his arms after a few stabs, let alone hit or punched her.
This is the response on JAii that troubles me:
Maria I'm going to call you out on this. First of all, you read the whole thing. There's no reason to stop at 'she over powered him" unless you don't want to acknowledge the rest of what I wrote. First, do you disagree that she over-powered him? That's what it sounds like, please correct me if I'm wrong. If she didn't overpower him, why did she walk away unscathed, and he's buried in the ground for the last 6 years?
C'mon Maria, you're not dumb, and you know I'm not dumb. You read the whole thing and you don't have a good response to what she did to that man. Read it Maria. Please. Maybe you want to remain in denial about the effect on Travis, but the truth is Travis suffered, he suffered horribly. He was terrified, he was panicked, he was hurt, Maria. He hurt bad. I can't imagine that man not crying like a little boy, begging Jodi to spare him. No matter what the circumstances of how they got to that point, if Travis attacked her first or not, he was begging for her to stop. Crying, screaming in pain, maybe even in his distress calling for his mom or grandma. Read those words Maria and tell me that there is no way he could have been doing that.
Supporters like to tell themselves that "adrenaline would have spared him the pain". No Maria, it wouldn't. Maybe for a moment or two, but the reason human beings have evolved pain receptors is to warn us of danger. Pain tells us 'get away or defend yourself from the danger". Supporters drag out the few instances where a person not only survived a devastating head injury (Phineas Gage, the guy with the metal bar through his head is often trotted out as an example) but as unaware they had been injured that badly. Travis was not a super man, nor was he a crazy man. His only response to a gun shot to the head and all that stabbing was to try to defend himself, and when he realized he was over-powered, his response was to try to flee down the hall, with her stabbing him the whole way.
Do you think the wounds all over his chest, back, shoulders and neck didn't have an affect on his muscle control? Don't you think he was weakened by those blows? What about the wounds that impacted the ribs and spine? Have you every had a needle inserted next to your spine? It's EXCRUCIATING. The spine is full of nerve endings and even a tiny needle will send you into excruciating pain, can you imagine what a knife would do? I have had spinal shots, and almost passed out from the pain. One session had to be rescheduled because I was in so much pain my entire body was shaking so badly it was impossible for the doctor to continue. And I have a pretty high pain threshold. Now throw in some blood loss and the dizziness and nausea that comes with that, and Travis was completely incapacitated and over powered.
How anyone can think he had the upper hand, and yet she had not a mark on her is confusing to me. How anyone can think she didn't overpower him, when the fact he is dead and she isn't, is just as confusing.
Maria I'm not trying to change your mind, but if you can't even acknowledge that Travis was in terror and pain, and just by virtue of the circumstances his terror and pain was far greater than Jodi's, well then I don't think you're being honest with yourself. You don't strike me as a heartless woman. To the contrary, the fact you couldn't bring yourself to admit to reading that passage tells me that it's too painful for you to consider what he went through. It's ok for supporters to admit Travis suffered. It gives more credibility to your stance as compassion and empathetic people. I hope you take a few minutes and read this, and then read that passage again. That's all I ask. You don't have to respond to this, just do yourself the favor of reading what he likely went through.
18. Upon leaving why wouldn’t she have noticed the license plate was upside down while supposedly screwing in those little fasteners?
19. How would ultimately arriving 24 hours late at Ryan’s house expect to establish an alibi?
Maria Justus asked my opinion, there are no facts to support anything else, so the only way to respond is with 'gross speculation'.
You say "If the other side is convinced Jodi is guilty of premeditated M1, I demand PROOF from them!" Maria you can't expect every single question you have about the case to be backed with proof. Nor can you expect every single question to have equal weight. The question of the Ryan alibi is not that important it the big scheme of things. It's what's called a 'soft question", it carries no weight in deciding premeditated murder. It's immaterial as they say in the courtroom.
Something we need to remember is that the whole population who watched the trial does not have to agree if the burden was met in regards to proof. While you may not think it was, the 12 people who matter in deciding her fate did. The jury is there to represent Jodi's peers, ordinary people who examine all the testimony and evidence and come to a decision if her story holds up based on everything put before them. The jury wasn't thinking about Ryan or alibis. They were thinking about how Jodi lied about the gas cans. They're thinking about the unlikelihood that Travis was attacking Jodi and Jodi was running around in the closet getting the gun and then being body slammed twice, and then shooting, stabbing and slashing the man to death all within 2 minutes. The jury was thinking about the big questions, and the state had no obligation to prove every single question. If they did, we'd never finish trials---they'd go on indefinitely.
Maria's right, I am not impartial, none of us are. But I am not "pro-Prosecution". I don't follow party lines, though much of what I believe does follow the prosecution line, just because I believe Jodi is guilty--and so by extension I agree with much of what they presented. I don't classify supporters as 'pro-Defense' because I know many of you don't completely agree and have formed opinions outside the party line.
I have minions?????? Cool. I love those little guys! Why would anyone be pissed that I said Jodi was pretty? I don't think most of the people I hang out with are of the mindless 'hater' variety who have to shoot down anything positive about Jodi. Jodi was an attractive woman at one time. I no longer think so because it's hard for me to see beauty in the person she has become. I freely admit I think she's a fairly good artist. I also think she's a fairly good singer. I think she's a crappy photographer, I don't count selfies as fine photography, but that's just me.
As for "your fame will come at a price..." I don't get that. I don't seek fame. My life is great by the way, so if my 'fame' is responsible for my good life, then I'll freely acknowledge that.
Thank you Journee. I agree with everything you said. Very well said.
If Jodi was as 'DONE with Travis!!!!' as you claim she was, then what was she doing in his bed on June 4? What was she doing posing for pictures and having sex with a man who she was sleeping with on her way to a 'NEW love interest"? Jodi moved away, because she was the one who moved there in the first place after she and Travis broke up. Travis had no obligation to move away. He owned a home and had a full life in Mesa. Now if he had left all that behind and moved to Yreka, well then I'd say he hadn't move on, but that's not happened.
If after Travis baptized her in November, they had anal sex, that goes against what Jodi said happened when she and Travis made it official in February. And that means she cheated on Darryl. So, now we have Jodi cheating on Darryl and cheating on Ryan to be with Travis. Nope, that's not moving on.
Didn't Jodi boast that she had read the Book of Mormon cover to cover? That she studied the text and discussed her readings with Travis and other Mormons? Is there a reason she didn't understand the many references in the Book of Mormon that described the sins associated with pre-marital sex? Jodi wasn't 14, she was in her mid-20's she understood what was expected of her, she was generally familiar with the Catholic/Christian religions which share the same believes about pre-marital sex.
Unfortunately the way I think is more in keeping with the way the jury thought. Despite any holes in my answers, they are similar to the way the jury thought to come up with their conclusion. Understanding my answers is key to understanding how the jury came to theirs. The enemy always has more valuable information than your allies. Understand the enemy, and you can begin fighting against them armed with that knowledge--all their strengths and weaknesses are set before you. That's why I value both sides debating the issues.
While I don't want to be edited, I don't mind being ridiculed. I don't edit people on my sites, unless they break rules or decorum and respectfulness, so I would hope JAii wouldn't have edited me. The invitation was rescinded, so it's a moot point.
That Twitter account doesn't belong to, nor am I familiar with it. I have never invaded the privacy or posted private information of any individual. I don't see how I would have been a threat to the privacy of JAii members, but rest assured I am not that kind of person.
The only comments I removed were disrespectful to Jodi or to JAii supporters. All opposing opinions are welcome---that's the reason to set up a debate site, to debate opposing views. I just found out the person who asked if I had removed their comment was mistaken--she had posted it on one blog and didn't realize she was looking for her comment on another blog. She corrected her mistake on the other blog.
This is just a portion of a longer comment by Alexey. I don't deny that I think Jodi is guilty. Nor do I deny that there is a substantial body of evidence that proves she's guilty. If there's an impression I deny the use term 'bias' it's only because the generally accepted definition of the word is an "unfair prejudice". That is not the case at all. I have watched the trial and researched extensively and come to my conclusions based on the facts as presented--there's nothing unfair about how I've come to my conclusions.
What inhumane treatment am I in favor of? I don't support the death penalty. I don't support lifetime solitary confinement, and I'm rethinking significant solitary. I support people who correspond with her, fund her commissary and send her books. I have suggested ways supporters can help her when she gets to Perryville. I also support mental health treatment while incarcerated. I think an important part of incarceration is having a job, and Jodi would not be eligible to hold a job in Perryville unless she gets a life sentence. I think Jodi has a lot of wasted talent that could be used to give her a sense of responsibility and benefit the prison and the community. I don't think Jodi's is worthless, I just think she's guilty and needs to be punished for that. I don't want her punished for anything beyond the crime she committed on June 4, 2008. What is inhumane about any of that?
Most of my readers who I hang out with on social media are in the same camp. There are others who support the DP, some who believe she should be let out in 20 years, others that want her to suffer, while many who don't
Thank you Pandora. I appreciate your kind words and your efforts to bring the conversation to JAii. I know you went out on a limb to mediate, and I hope you didn't have any backlash for trying to be fair.
Thank you Justus and Raja for your kind words.
And many thanks to all the people at JAii who indulged my blog with their thoughtful consideration and responses. I appreciate you opening up your forum, if just to comment on my answers.
Comments are open. Please continue to exercise respect and restraint. This has been a great debate, and I appreciate all efforts to keep it civil and interesting.